a&e features
Former Avalon singer on coming out, getting ousted and where he is today
Michael Passons was founding member of CCM supergroup known for ‘Testify to Love’

Fans of the Christian pop group Avalon always wondered why founding member Michael Passons resigned abruptly in 2003 and then seemed to drop off the face of the earth.
There was talk of a solo album but none materialized. The official word was that he was “moving on to other things.”
The group had had a wildly successful run. Founded in the mid-’90s, Avalon released its self-titled debut album in 1996 on Sparrow and four more (“A Maze of Grace” in 1997, “In a Different Light” in 1999, “Joy: a Christmas Collection” in 2000 and “Oxygen” in 2001) as well as a hits collection with new material (“Testify to Love: the Very Best of Avalon”) in 2003 racking up 19 No. 1 singles on the Billboard gospel charts, two RIAA-certified gold albums, six Dove Awards, an American Music Award and three Grammy nominations.
Initially there was a blond male and female singer and a brunette male and female singer to round out the foursome in ways that were both visually and sonically appealing. There was regular turnover in one of the “female” slots but Passons, Janna (nee Potter) Long and Jody McBrayer formed the group’s backbone all through its early and most successful years.
After years of silence, in September, Passons came out as gay on Josh Skinner’s “Jonah and the Whale” podcast and said he was fired from the group for declining to continue with “reparative” therapy. The podcast generated significant media buzz and was aggregated in mainstream outlets like Billboard and People.
Though candid and forthcoming in the podcast, there was more to the story. Passons, a 54-year-old Yazoo City, Miss., native, was chatty and candid in a 45-minute phone interview from his Nashville home on working in the CCM (contemporary Christian music) bubble, hiding his sexuality for so many years, why he opted to come out now and about the Dove Award he nabbed from Whitney Houston at the 1998 ceremony. His comments have been slightly edited for length.

WASHINGTON BLADE: It was great to hear the podcast. It felt like you’d just kinda vanished.
MICHAEL PASSONS: I understand that people would see it that way because you’re just kind of out of the public eye when you’re not making music, not putting music out and doing interviews, and I had not done any of that pretty much in 17 years. And I didn’t really expect this podcast to get the attention that it did get. It was a bit of a surprise to me that there was so much of an interest in a 17-year-old story.
BLADE: Why did it feel like now was the right time? How did it come about?
PASSONS: It wasn’t some calculated move, I was approached by a friend who introduced me to Josh Skinner who has a podcast Jonah and the Whale and said would you like to be a guest? This particular podcast deals with an underwater moment in your life and I had previously had conversations with my family just a couple months earlier, just about my life and the truth of my life so I thought, “Well now is the perfect time,” so it really wasn’t planned out far in advance. An opportunity landed in my lap and I decided to tell the story.
BLADE: Had you been approached before?
PASSONS: Well, I’ve been pretty under the radar. I’ve been traveling the last 15 years with another Christian group, but only in the band. I play keys for Point of Grace. I wanted to keep my foot in the water … but I didn’t want to be the front guy … so I really hadn’t been approached by journalists at all until now.
BLADE: You tell in the podcast about how they came to your house for a meeting in 2003 and this all came to a head. How had they known you were gay in the first place? What led up to that meeting?
PASSONS: Well at that point I was 38 years old, I wasn’t married, I wasn’t dating, (so) rumors begin to swirl when you have that type of scenario and we had discussions about it several years before. So that’s when … they said to me I needed to go to therapy. It really was in 2002 that they wanted me to go to reparative therapy or at least go see a counselor or some guy who said his credentials were counseling gay people. So I did that to appease them but I knew it was a fruitless effort, and as I say in the podcast, that didn’t last very long. I told them I wasn’t going back to that. It had been a conversation for about a year or so before 2003.
BLADE: Did you have a pretty good relationship with them otherwise?
PASSONS: Well over the course of the eight years we were traveling together, I saw those people more than anyone else. Our schedule was so demanding and we toured almost nonstop. … So we did at the time have this family-type relationship but … groups often have a shorter shelf life than solo artists because there are multiple people with multiple goals and aspirations and so unless all four of us aligned, there were always going to be these times where one wants to do a solo deal or they think we should do this or go in this direction and so we kind of started growing apart in our vision. Jody and Janna wanted to do solo records and I thought that was something that was going to fracture the group and our brand and that did cause some tensions because the other two members really wanted to focus our efforts on the Avalon brand because that’s what was familiar to everyone. So over the years we became not as close and then of course you add something like this which kind of draws a line and you have to choose what side of the line you’re going to be on.
BLADE: Bear with me a sec, but I’m going to read you Jody’s quote to CCM Magazine in April, 2004 when he said: “We had a meeting at Michael’s house one day and he told us he was going to move on to other things. We sat and cried and felt like the rug had been pulled out from under us. Things had felt great with the new group and Michael seemed to get along and blend vocally with (then-new member) Melissa (Greene) really well. But Michael had been with us from the beginning and just felt it was time for him to do something else. It’s weird but since his departure, it seems everyone is looking for some scandalous thing to have happened there. It makes me just want to say, ‘Look, I’m sorry to disappoint you that we don’t have some juicy gossip or ‘Dynasty’ episode happening here.” Based on what you shared in the podcast, that was a gross mischaracterization of how it went down. Did you read that at the time? How did it make you feel?
PASSONS: At the time the record label and management held really right reins on us because they created the group, it was their idea. They wanted to find a group that was already in existence that was two guys, two girls. They couldn’t do it so they said, “Let’s just put one together,” so we never felt like we had ownership of much. … So when management and label say, “This is what you are to say,” it became kind of like a bullshit fest at that point. You just gotta stick with the story and that’s what Jody was doing, he was sticking with the story he was told to say. … That was just the way they chose to handle it at the time. … Interestingly enough, Jody reached out to me after the podcast aired and we had not really talked in 17 years other than bumping into each other in a restaurant and saying a quick hello. We met for about an hour we met at a park here in Nashville and just walked around and he apologized profusely and said his heart was broken when he was listening to that podcast. He was very sincere and I accepted what he had to say and I feel like our relationship has actually — there was some definite closure there as far as what I’d been feeling all of these years and so that was a good thing that came out of this and I’m glad he reached out to me.
The Blade invited McBrayer to comment. In response to the question, “Did you feel muzzled by the label?” he sent this response: “Absolutely muzzled. However I would have never ever said anything to hurt Michael’s reputation. We were asked for years about what happened and myself and my family refused to say anything that would put Michael in a bad light. We were given a statement and told to go with it. We did everything we were told at the time. … Michael knows I love him and hate how all of it went down and how he was treated by the industry. I’m so thankful he’s happy and grown beyond it all now. I will continue to protect him. He will always be family.”
BLADE: Was there any truth to what they were saying? Had you been considering a solo album?
PASSONS: No. I know my strengths and my strength was not as a solo artist. … I enjoyed the team mentality of a group. … I think fans and people outside the industry took the press release at face value but people inside the industry heard pretty quickly what had really happened. Gossip and rumors spread really quickly around Nashville so I just thought, “OK, I’m gonna just start life No. 3 here.” (chuckles)
BLADE: A few other big CCM artists eventually came out like Jennifer Knapp and Ray Boltz. Did you follow that or ever compare notes with them?
PASSONS: I don’t know either of those artists personally. I’ve never really interacted with them. I think we did a show once with Jennifer years and years ago but it was just mainly, “Hello, nice to meet you.” I applaud them for living their best life and telling their truth but I just never felt like mine was necessarily a story that needed to be told. I wasn’t a solo artist. I would get recognized occasionally. People would say, “Oh, you’re that guy who was in that group,” but I would say 80 percent of fans just knew me as the blond guy. So I didn’t feel like I had tons of name recognition or that my story mattered. But in the last few years, I wanted to be more truthful with my family so that’s really where all this came out of.
BLADE: Did anybody else from your CCM days reach out besides Jody?
PASSONS: I’ve received tons of texts and Instagram messages from friends from home, friends from college, fans, strangers. As far as the industry, some people that I haven’t seen in a while. It was very interesting. Amy Grant texted me and told me she listened and thought my story was beautiful in the way I told it and graceful and I appreciated that. Susan Ashton reached out and I haven’t seen her in years. She was very encouraging. She said, “You are seen and heard and loved.” Everything has been overwhelmingly positive.
BLADE: Did you get to know the other artists very well or have much interaction on the multi-artist tours you did like “Emmanuel” or “My Utmost”?
PASSONS: Yeah, we had a lot of time to just hang out, especially on the bus. You’re traveling late at night and everyone’s wired so you’re staying up and visiting. But we were really new artists at that time and we were thrown into a mix of all of these people that were our mentors, our heroes. We were fans of theirs and now we’re all of a sudden peers, just because of how Avalon came together. Our very first tour before we even sang a note on a record was “Young Messiah” in ’95. We had just come together weeks before and just had enough time to record one Christmas song so that we could sing that song on that tour and there we were next to 4 HIM and Point of Grace and Steven Curtis Chapman and Larnelle Harris and that was mind-blowing to be with all these great artists. But yes, everyone was very welcoming had lots of encouragement for us and advice and I actually really enjoyed those tours.
BLADE: I saw you guys once with Twila Paris. What was she like?
PASSONS: That was our first tour (the “Where I Stand Tour” in 1997). We did Young Messiah that Christmas and then we did our record, then we toured with Twila. We were definitely getting our feet wet just seeing how this industry was going to work … how we were gonna mesh as a group because we were thrown on stage and we had to find our blend. Live, It’s one thing to be in the studio and be mixed and blended but to sing live, the Twila Paris tour was really just where we began to hone our craft as a group and so yeah, that was wonderful. I had many good experiences wth that tour. We dd a spring tour and a fall tour with Twila and it was a long tour but we definitely leaned a lot.
BLADE: Is there anybody in CCM who struck you as markedly different from their public persona?
PASSONS: I feel like everyone would be a little different than what you perceive them to be because you only see a very structured view of them by the PR department of the record label. I really enjoyed getting to know Sandi Patty because when you listen to her music, you just don’t pick up on the edge that she has. She has this great sense of humor that’s a little edgy. I don’t know, my image of Sandi Patty was that she was always walking around in some state of meditation or sitting around in a prayer circle because when you’re growing up you just think of someone in such a reverent way because you respected their music so much and she was just she a cut up, she kidded around, she invited us to her home in Indiana at that point just to hang out with her family and I just I enjoyed seeing a whole different side of her. She’s a very strong personality, a strong woman and listening and singing along with her records, it was just good to see the other side of her.
BLADE: What have you been living on all these years?
PASSONS: I play for Point of Grace and also a friend of mine in town, an attorney and I actually work with her in her law practice and of course being friends with the boss, you can leave anytime and so I’m free to travel whenever I need to and want to so that allows me to hang out with Point of Grace and go where they go. 2020 has been interesting. Since March, we’ve only had two shows and they were very small, so it’s been really interesting year for sure.
BLADE: What denomination did you grow up in?
PASSONS: Southern Baptist. A little country church in Mississippi.
BLADE: Are there still elements of Baptist or evangelical theology you struggle with? Queer or otherwise?
PASSONS: I’m past struggling with it. Of course, it’s something I think about often but I don’t struggle with it any longer. … I’ve definitely got a different view of spiritualism. I don’t consider myself religious but I do believe in God and so I do have a spiritual life but it just doesn’t involve organized religion and that’s just where I’ve landed.
BLADE: But do you still believe the Christianity basics — Jesus died for our sins and rose on the third day and so on or is it a broader thing for you?
PASSONS: It’s a broader spiritual thing and like I said in my previous interview, I’m just in this place of my prayer to God is show me what is true. I’m not gonna close my mind to anything, I’m not going to say, “Oh this is what I was taught and I don’t believe that anymore,” I just want to step back and rebuild all those boxes, rebuild what my spirituality is, kind of like just implode it to ground level and let’s start again. I was taught by very well-intended people. All my Sunday School teachers in that little church, they didn’t have any malice, they were well-intended people teaching what they believed. We were spoon fed, so at some point in your life you have to just decide of all that information you took in, what do you really believe? I had to get to the point where I was OK disagreeing and not believing some of the things I was taught. it wasn’t disrespectful to those people, I just have to find my own way.
BLADE: Do you think the conservative, white evangelical world will ever become openly accepting of LGBT people? Is it a lost cause or could it be a whole different story in another generation?
PASSONS: I think there is hope. I’ve seen so much progress in Christian circles just in my lifetime that I never thought I would see. It’s pockets, it’s not widespread, but … I think there is hope. A lot of things used to be justified with scripture that they eventually came around on. (Author) Peter Gomes calls it “the last prejudice of the church.” … After I left, Avalon recorded a song called “Orphans of God,” which I thought was interesting that they were singing it because I was definitely an outcast to them. But now my friend (out country singer) Ty Herndon and Kristen Chenoweth are going to cover it for a Christmas release as a duet and they asked Melissa Greene and I to sing backing vocals on it so now it will take on a whole new meaning. It was a really nice, full circle moment.
BLADE: Did you keep up with what Avalon was doing much after you were kicked out?
PASSONS: No. It would have put me in a bad headspace.
BLADE: Have you had many boyfriends? Are you in a relationship now?
PASSONS: I am. I’m with a wonderful guy now and it’s going well.
BLADE: Not married though?
PASSONS: No, not married (laughs).
BLADE: How long was it before you were comfortable dating guys?
PASSONS: It took me a while, because when all that went down, I internalized a lot of things and I thought, “Well this is my fault,” type of thing. It really took many years for me to just work through all the junk and work through that cloud in my head and so it wasn’t like some big unleashing. It wasn’t like I left Avalon and just started living my best life, it definitely took awhile to repair the hurt that happened from those several years when Avalon was ending and all the things I went through at that point.
BLADE: Do you know of other LGBT people in CCM who are not out?
PASSONS: Yeah, I do. I feel for them because I know that panicky feeling I used to have, that someone might catch on. … But I think a lot of conservative Christians might be naive as to how many people are gay or bi in their church. You learn from a very early age to be a good actor.
BLADE: Who was your favorite Avalon producer to work with?
PASSONS: Brown Bannister produced most of the records when I was in the group. He’s, you know, such an icon in our industry and I have so much reverence for him and so much respect, so it was an honor to work with him. He actually brought out the best in me. There was something about just his people skills and he was just so kind and thoughtful in how he spoke with you and guided you through the recording process. He just took the time, even just to find the right microphone for me, because the mic in the studio can make a world of difference. I remember going through five or six mics before we found the right one. A lot of producers are just like, “OK let’s get this going, all right that’s great on to the next one.” He just took time to make it right and I appreciated that.
BLADE: How long did it take to make those albums on average?
PASSONS: When it came time to record, we would try to just block off weeks where we would just go in there and do vocals, vocals, vocals vocals and really mainly weekdays because we would go out on the weekends and do one-off, you know, weekend dates here and there. So we wouldn’t obviously do a new record in the midst of a tour because we’d want to tour the new record but during our one-offs we would get in there and try to get in it done and probably over the course of a month and a half, two months, we would have everything done.
BLADE: How involved were you all with the vocal arrangements? I always loved that outro and all those layers on “We Are the Reason,” for instance. How did you come up with all those intricate lines?
PASSONS: We had a great vocal vocal producer named Michael Mellett and he had been a studio singer in Nashville a long time and had toured with Billy Joel as a background singer. He would come in and help arrange our parts and he was amazing at it. And I remember he did work on our Christmas record and I remember that outro those alternate melodies that he helped us come up with, I loved that too. I felt like that really updated the song. It’s interesting because when we did it it was 20 years old and now it’s been 20 years since we did it, so it needs to be done again now. But it was my favorite song growing up. I used to sing it with an accompaniment tape at my little country church when I was a kid.
BLADE: Yeah, I love it too. Did (songwriter) David Meece ever say anything after you guys cut it?
PASSONS: Indirectly. I think he might have said something to Brown but we heard that he liked it.
BLADE: Who’s a celebrity who would exemplify your type?
PASSONS: (laughs) My type, wow. I’m definitely attracted to someone who is confident but not cocky, someone who has sensitivity but is not overly sensitive, someone who’s just confident in themselves, that’s a big attraction to me. If I were to throw out a celebrity I see a lot of those qualities in, and maybe I’m wrong, but someone like Bradley Cooper.
BLADE: Did you guys in Avalon have any say in choosing singles?
PASSONS: We were included in conversations but I feel like ultimately the label got what they wanted. There’s one little battle that we won and in retrospect not just one, but I just remember this instance, where the label disagreed with us about what we should call our second record and had we listened to the label, we probably would have sold a lot more. They wanted us to call it “Testify to Love” and we had no idea when we were naming the record and about to release it that that would be the one song that Avalon would be known for or that it be our biggest song ever. We thought “A Maze of Grace” was such a clever title. They disagreed but they let us do what we wanted. But who knew “Testify to Love” would become such a huge song for us?
BLADE: Was (Sparrow president) Bill Hearn around much?
PASSONS: We would see him periodically and even his father Billy Ray, who started the company, they’re both deceased now, but they were very approachable. They weren’t always in our meetings because we were more with A&R and publicity and stylists but when they were around, they were very approachable, very hands on.
BLADE: When you win a Dove Award, did you each get one or just one for the group?
PASSONS: At the ceremony, just one is given but then they mail three more to you like a month later.
BLADE: Where do you keep yours?
PASSONS: I have a little study/office that I’m sitting in right now. I just have them on a shelf along with some pictures and mementos and things I like to keep out. The interesting story about one our Dove Awards is our first Dove Award for new artist of the year and that was in 1998 I believe, and we got new artist of the year at the 29th Dove Awards and that was the year that Whitney Houston performed with Dottie Rambo … and we were backstage after we won doing a press junket so I missed her performance and I’m a huge Whitney Houston fan, like I would rival anyone else saying they’re a huge Whitney Houston fan. (laughs) She’s pretty much my all-time favorite artist. So after the show some press people wanted to take a photo of Whitney holding a Dove Award. She didn’t have one so Jody was standing close by with his and they said, “Can we have your Dove Award for a picture,” and so Whitney took our Dove Award and had her picture made with it and of course that was the only one we got that night and our manager said, “OK I’m gonna take that to the office and hold it ’til the others come in and you all can come by and pick them up,” and so before he could get to it, I got that particular one and took a Sharpie and made a mark on the bottom of it and the day that our manager said, “OK you can come by and pick up the Dove Awards they’re all in,” I was first one in there and I picked them all up and looked for the one I made the mark on because I wanted the one that Whitney had held. So I’m holding it right now, I’ve got that one in my hand and I always think of Whitney.
BLADE: Who were your favorite CCM acts growing up? Or did you listen to more pop?
PASSONS: I listened to a lot of pop and and country. My family is from a rural Mississippi town so country music was really most of what was on the radio and I love that old ’70s country. I still listen to it just because it has a lot of good memories. But I didn’t really know there was such a thing as CCM other than, you know, like Bill and Gloria Gaither-type stuff until I was in high school and someone handed me a tape of “Age to Age” by Amy Grant and that just lit a fire in me like I had no idea this type of thing existed, this is what I want to do. And of course I’ve just been I was a fan of Amy Grant from that day on and she was definitely a huge influence in the way I would sing music, the way I would write music, I would listen to interviews of her and I would just — she was a great teacher in that respect of just knowing how to respond to questions, how to react to people, just her demeanor, how she handled herself, she was definitely a role model.
BLADE: So that must have been mind-blowing to work with her producer (Brown Bannister) all those years later.
PASSONS: Yeah, definitely. And then her text last week, yeah, that was a nice moment.
BLADE: Why didn’t the more progressive Christian denominations ever have their own version of CCM? There are a few fledgling queer gospel singers out there but nothing like the machine that CCM was. Maybe they didn’t care as much if their kids listened to Metallica or whatever?
PASSONS: I think your theory might hold some weight, just that the conservative Christians were looking for an alternative for them and their families to listen to. One thing I think there probably wouldn’t have been a market in the liberal circles to sustain the industry, they wouldn’t have purchased the CDs and the music. It was the conservatives who made this a business and the Christian music business is a business. You have to be making money to be in CCM, that’s the dichotomy that I’ve always wrestled with. CCM depended on Becky, and I’ll tell you who Becky is. Becky is the pseudonym for their target audience. So any meeting we were in, it was always asked, “What would Becky buy, would Becky like this song?” And Becky is a 20-, 30- or 40-something conservative Christian female and she was the target audience because she was the ones buying the CDs and the tapes and downloading the music and so I think that’s maybe why the conservative church has kind of a market on CCM music.
BLADE: Is she related to Karen?
PASSONS: (laughs) That’s funny. If they’re not related, they’re probably best friends.
BLADE: When your bandmates came to your house that day, did it feel like it was coming from a place of love and concern or did it feel like a power play? Like they were trying to oust you?
PASSONS: It did feel like a power play. There were some very complicated personalities in the group and so it definitely — I did not feel much love that day.
BLADE: To me, it was like when Florence got kicked out of the Supremes. They could go on and do whatever they want, but without Florence, it wasn’t the Supremes. Without you, it wasn’t Avalon. The one female singer didn’t matter so much because she always changed. That was like the new season of “Charlie’s Angels,” you always knew she would change. But when you left, it was never the same.
PASSONS: I appreciate that, I’ve heard several say that and it’s always good to know that my contribution is something that was missed.

a&e features
‘Another Gay Sequel: Gays Gone Wild!’ and ‘Swan Song’ director Todd Stephens recalls the bygone era of raunchy 2000s comedies
The outrageous and campy ‘Another Gay Sequel: Gays Gone Wild!’ is back in theaters nearly 20 years later
Todd Stephens, director of both the outrageous Another Gay Movie (which turns 20 this year!) and Another Gay Sequel: Gays Gone Wild!, knows all too well that the era of early 2000s comedies like Wet Hot American Summer and Not Another Teen Movie has largely come and gone.
But with the theatrical re-release of his 2008 cult classic Another Gay Sequel, which features memorable cameos from RuPaul, Perez Hilton, Scott Thompson and the late Colton Ford, Stephens is hopeful that his 2000s comedies will find new audiences and “make people laugh” in our increasingly “crazy, dark” world.
“Nobody’s really making these kinds of raunchy, irreverent satires [anymore]. I mean, people are afraid. Comedians and filmmakers are afraid of being cancelled if they cross the line, which sometimes we do when we’re making crazy comedies,” Stephens says. “There are things about Another Gay Sequel that I would never do now. I wish I could go back and change. But it takes a lot of guts to make a politically incorrect film, and I think that’s why people still appreciate seeing that.”
Shot on location in Florida, Another Gay Sequel follows four young men (played by Jake Mosser, Jonah Blechman, Jimmy Clabots, and Aaron Michael Davies) who spend their spring break vacation in Fort Lauderdale — the goal, of course, to hook up with as many men as possible. What ensues must be seen to be believed, as Stephens’ comedy harkens back to pre-Grindr and pre-Instagram hookup culture.
“I made films primarily for the queer community so we could laugh at ourselves. Up until that time, mid to early 2000s queer content was so serious — coming out films where the queer characters were agonizing about who they were,” Stephens says, while foregrounding that he made his own coming out movie with 1998’s Edge of Seventeen. “I wanted to do something different and set it in a world where they were already out loud and proud. Being queer was not the conflict. They just wanted to get laid like every other young guy!”
While Another Gay Movie grossed nearly $800,000 worldwide and has continued to reach queer audiences, Stephens admits he faced more challenges when coming back for the sequel two years later. He says, “The sequel was not as well-received as the original. I think that’s generally the case with sequels. The other challenge with Another Gay Sequel is that I was originally going to make it with the cast of the first movie, and unfortunately, right before we started shooting, two of the guys decided not to come back.”
Stephens continues, “I didn’t speak to them for years, but now, over the years, we’re all friends again. Actually, we just had dinner a couple of weeks ago and even batted around ideas for doing a part three of the trilogy. So who knows!”

In the indie film scene, Stephens is known for his more understated character dramas. Most recently, Stephens wrote, directed, and produced Swan Song as the final film in his “Ohio Trilogy,” which also features 1998’s Edge of Seventeen and 2001’s Gypsy 83. The 2021 release starred the late Udo Kier as hairdresser Pat Pitsenbarger, based on the queer inspiration that Stephens looked up to growing up in Ohio.
“When Udo opened the door to his house and introduced me to his dog, whose name was Liza Minnelli, I was like, ‘There’s another whole side of Udo that the world hasn’t really seen.’ He was, honestly, probably the best actor I’ve ever worked with in my life. Every day watching him on set was like a masterclass in acting,” Stephens says. “It’s a big loss, but Udo had a legendary career, so he left a lot of amazing work behind for us to check out.”
Recalling both his experiences working with the late Kier and Ford, and the importance of younger queer people connecting with the icons that came before them, Stephens says: “When I was growing up, the small town gay bar was where I met people from other generations. They told me stories and passed on queer culture. There was this intergenerational conversation that happened because we were gathering as a community. That is, sadly, something more challenging these days.”
He concludes, “The five queer resorts we shot at in Another Gay Sequel, for example, are all gone. The physical gay world is becoming extinct, and that’s something we have to work harder at to learn from our elders — the ones who paved the way for us. It’s more challenging, but we just have to work a little harder to connect with everybody. Get off our damn phones and go be with our people!”
Another Gay Sequel: Gays Gone Wild! is currently playing in limited theaters.
a&e features
35 years after ‘Truth or Dare,’ Slam is still dancing
Salim Gauwloos on Madonna, HIV, and why he almost didn’t audition for Blond Ambition Tour
Most gay men of a certain age remember “the kiss.”
It was the moment Madonna’s dancers Salim Gauwloos and Gabriel Trupin locked lips in the hit 1991 documentary film “Truth or Dare,” which is celebrating its 35th anniversary this spring.
The kiss was hot, but what made it groundbreaking is that it appeared in a mainstream Hollywood movie that screened in suburban multiplexes across the country. This wasn’t an obscure art house film. The movie, and tour on which it was based, received months of breathless media attention all over the world for bold expressions of female empowerment and queer visibility. Madonna was threatened with arrest in Toronto for simulating masturbation on stage and Pope John Paul II urged Catholics to boycott the show, triggering a media firestorm.
“Truth or Dare” was billed as a behind-the-scenes documentary of the tour, but it quickly became clear that the real star of the show wasn’t Madonna, but rather her colorful troupe of seven backup dancers, six of whom identified as gay: Kevin Stea, Carlton Wilborn, Luis Xtravaganza Camacho, Jose Gutierez Xtravaganza, Gauwloos, and Trupin; Oliver Crumes III identifies as straight.
We saw them party and march in the New York City Pride parade. They were unabashedly queer at a dangerous time — before protease inhibitors began to stem the AIDS plague and before most celebrities and politicians embraced the gay community in any real way. Being out in 1991 carried major risks to career and reputation.
Enter Gauwloos, one of those brave dancers who vogued his way into the hearts of countless gay men entranced by his handsome looks, his stage presence, and dance skills.
Gauwloos — known then and now as “Slam”— sat down with the Blade to talk Madonna, the lasting impact of “Truth or Dare,” the public disclosure of his HIV status, and plans for a new book on his life.
His story is fascinating — from growing up in Europe to dancing in New York to landing the gig of a lifetime with Madonna. He performed on that tour while secretly HIV positive and went without medical treatment for 10 years because he was living in the United States as an undocumented immigrant. Not even Madonna knew of his HIV status. Two other dancers on the tour were also HIV positive but no one talked about it. Ironically, Madonna was singing “Express Yourself” and advocating for condom use during her concerts yet backstage three of her dancers were secretly positive.
“A lot of people were dying so I wasn’t going to tell Madonna I had HIV,” said Slam, now 57. “And the others didn’t either. It wasn’t the moment to do it. She used to make speeches about Keith Haring and AIDS and I thought it’s going to be me next.”
Gabriel Trupin died of AIDS in 1995. Slam was diagnosed at age 18 in 1987, a frightening time when a positive test result often meant a death sentence. He booked the “Blond Ambition Tour” at age 21 after moving to New York. His friends encouraged him to audition but Slam resisted because he wasn’t a big Madonna fan.
“It was crazy, everyone wanted that job,” he said, “but I wanted to dance with Janet Jackson and Paula Abdul.” He listened to his friends and shortly after the audition, Slam received a call from Madonna herself inviting him to join the tour.
“We all wanted to be stars but not even Madonna knew how big that tour would become. The way it was choreographed and directed, the stars aligned. … It never looks dated even today.”

The world tour kicked off in Japan in April 1990 then moved to the United States and Europe, stirring controversy wherever it went. There was the iconic cone bra; the aforementioned simulated masturbation during “Like a Virgin”; and religious imagery that offended many Catholic groups and the Vatican.
And the controversy didn’t end with the tour. Cameras were rolling throughout the tour for what Slam thought would be a “video memory” for Madonna. But as the tour unfolded, director Alek Keshishian reportedly became more interested in what was happening behind the scenes so plans for mere tour footage were expanded into a full documentary.
“We were young and partying and didn’t really know what was going on,” Slam said. “You live in this celebrity bubble and you sign a paper – I don’t even know what I signed.”
In 1992, Kevin, Oliver, and Gabriel sued Madonna for invasion of privacy and fraud claiming she used some footage without their consent. They claim they were told nothing would be included in the film that they didn’t want to be seen. In one specific incident, Gabriel alleged that he told producers he didn’t want the scene of him kissing Slam to be in the film as he wasn’t fully out.
“Gabriel was forcibly outed,” in the movie, Kevin said in a 2016 interview.
Slam did not join his colleagues in the lawsuit.
“I couldn’t sue because I was illegal but I wasn’t ever going to sue,” Slam said. “I’m not a suing kind of person. But good for them, they fought for it and won. A lot of people don’t have the balls to sue Madonna.” The suit was settled two years later for an undisclosed sum.
“We were all conflicted about the kiss,” he said with a laugh. “The kiss, oh my God, my boyfriend is going to kill me! Belgian stress!”
Beyond worrying about his boyfriend’s reaction, Slam had concerns about the impact of being openly gay on his modeling career.
“In 1990, you couldn’t get high fashion campaigns as an openly gay model,” he said. “I was worried about that. I couldn’t get a campaign because I was gay. My agency told me to say I was straight and it was just a game.”
In 2016, pegged to the 25th anniversary of “Truth or Dare,” the surviving six dancers filmed a documentary about their lives post-Madonna titled “Strike A Pose.” In it, Slam publicly revealed his HIV status for the first time in an emotional scene with his former colleagues.
“I found the strength to tell the world I have HIV,” he recalls. “I was scared but I felt brave. The outcome and messages were beautiful. After I saw ‘Strike A Pose,’ I knew we gave people hope. And not just for gay people.”
He was infected in 1987 but didn’t get treated until 1997. After the tour ended, he said he went into a depression and his agency dropped him.
“I was partying too much after the tour,” he recalls. “I made a decision to live as an illegal alien.” In 1997, Slam collapsed and was rushed to the hospital with pneumonia.
“They started treating me and thank God the new HIV drugs were out, the cocktails, it took me a couple months to get better.”
Madonna didn’t participate in “Strike A Pose” and Slam said he hasn’t seen or spoken to her since the end of the tour. He said he had no idea of the impact “Truth or Dare” would have.
“You look at this movie in 1991 and you don’t think it’s going to be such a big thing and 35 years later it’s still helping people,” he said. “It was helpful for people who felt alone at that time. It was such an important documentary.
“I don’t think younger gay people realize how important Madonna was to gay and queer visibility — she was a big part of it. We showed the world it’s OK to be gay and that was the great message of this movie.”
He noted that, decades later, many of his friends have transgender kids and that queer culture is represented in much of mainstream pop culture.
“It’s amazing how far we’ve come,” he said. “I know we’ll always be marginalized but we have come so far. I’m really proud of our community. The current nightmare will be over and I do believe that things will get better.”
Referencing President Trump’s attacks on the LGBTQ community and crackdown on immigration, Slam described the situation in the U.S. today as “sad.”
“Everything is such a mess,” he said. “Some of these people have lived here 30-40 years and they take you out of your home. I can’t even imagine. It breaks my heart. When I was illegal it was a different story.”
Slam met his husband, Facundo Gabba, who’s from Argentina, in 2000, and he helped him get a legal case together to win citizenship. He filed a case in 2001 and was told there was a 99 percent chance he wouldn’t be permitted to stay in the United States because they weren’t allowing HIV-positive immigrants to remain in the country. But he got his green card anyway in 2005 and became a U.S. citizen in 2012.
Today, Slam and Gabba live in Brooklyn, though they travel a lot because “I can’t take the cold.” The couple married in Argentina in 2010 and in the U.S. in 2016.
Slam is still dancing and working as a choreographer. He’s teaching at a contemporary dance festival in Vienna in July and even offers online lessons via Salimdans.com.
As a longtime HIV survivor, Slam is dedicated to a healthful lifestyle.
“You have to keep moving; when you move you stay healthy,” he says. “Dance heals everything. I do yoga, I eat healthy and clean as possible. I don’t watch much TV … I try to stay healthy and positive. If I absorb all of the negativity I would be sick.”

In addition to his ongoing work in dance and choreography, Slam is in the early stages of writing a book about his extraordinary life and pioneering career.
“I always knew I had a book inside of me. I want to talk about my HIV status. I know I can inspire more people. I want to tell even more secrets in the book; secrets are a poison so I want to tell everything.”
Among those secrets, he notes, is a desire to write about his strict Muslim father and the years he spent as an undocumented immigrant in America.
“Those are the things I want to talk about, the struggles. It’s a love story, hope and resilience. I know it will help people.”
As for his friends from the tour, Slam says he remains in contact with Gabriel’s mother and José Xtravaganza is his best friend. Baltimore’s Center Stage theater is currently developing a new musical about Xtravaganza’s life. And Slam said he occasionally talks to Oliver, though “he still can’t pronounce Sandra Bernhard’s name.”
At the end of our interview, Slam indulged a round a rapid fire questions:
• Favorite song to perform in the “Blond Ambition” tour? “Express Yourself.”
• Aside from Madonna, who was your favorite artist you worked with? Toni Braxton in “Aida” on Broadway.
• Favorite Madonna song? “Live to Tell”
• Favorite Madonna video? “Bedtime Stories”
• What’s more stressful: performing in a concert or performing on the VMAs? “Both, because we always had to be perfect.”
• Did you go to Madonna’s recent “Celebration” tour? “I didn’t see the show but I saw clips online.”
• What do you remember most about performing “Vogue” at the VMAs? “It was nerve-racking for them to flip those fans.”
• When was the last time you vogued? “I teach classes so a couple weeks ago.”
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Amy Madigan finds herself on the cusp of Oscar glory. Can she overcome the historic bias against horror performances?
How history and stats make this year’s supporting actress race the toughest to call
One of the biggest headlines out of last night’s Actor Awards (formerly known as the SAG Awards) was Amy Madigan winning best supporting actress for her work in Zach Cregger’s hit horror comedy Weapons.
As she stepped on stage during the last major televised ceremony of the season — a crucial platform as Oscar voting continues through Thursday, March 5 — Madigan charmed her fellow actors and peers, shouting out fellow Weapons actors Julia Garner, Alden Ehrenreich, and Austin Abrams and remarking on how “actors love other actors.” In a moment where she would’ve been completely justified to simply relish in personal victory after working at her craft for 45 years, Madigan turned the spotlight on the collaborators who made her remarkable transformation as Aunt Gladys possible.
As she finds herself on the cusp of Oscar glory, Madigan is also on the cusp of breaking through the Academy of Motion Pictures Arts and Sciences’ historic bias against horror performances (remember Toni Collette in Hereditary and Florence Pugh in Midsommar?) But it’s that same bias that could keep the Field of Dreams actor from going all the way.
Last year, best actress frontrunner and The Substance star Demi Moore lost the Oscar to Mikey Madison in the best picture winner, Anora. Moore won major awards at the Critics Choice, Golden Globes, and Actor Awards, while Madison won at the BAFTAs and Spirit Awards. The Substance certainly tested Oscar voters more with its ultra-shocking body horror, but Madigan’s trajectory with Weapons hasn’t been too far off from Moore’s — she’s a veteran actor finally getting her dues for an out-there horror performance in an even more out-there film. You could argue Madigan has the most identifiable career narrative of the season, and she gave one hell of a memorable performance that instantly went viral.
She’s been here before; in a fitting full-circle moment, Madigan received her first and, to date, only other Oscar nomination exactly 40 years ago for 1985’s Twice in a Lifetime, an indie drama starring Gene Hackman, Ellen Burstyn, and Ann-Margret (Madigan was the sole nominee for that film). The Oscar-winning group that Madigan hopes to join come March 15 is comprised of Jodie Foster and Anthony Hopkins for The Silence of the Lambs, Kathy Bates for Misery, Fredric March for Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, and Ruth Gordon for Rosemary’s Baby. A small group, but mighty company for the lucky actor who joins it next.
Madigan’s trajectory has already been compared to Gordon and Rosemary’s Baby, and rightly so — Gordon won the supporting actress Oscar in 1969 on her second acting nomination, while box office hit Rosemary’s Baby was only nominated for one other award (best adapted screenplay). Weapons was an undeniable summer sleeper hit, grossing $269 million worldwide and earning a coveted nomination from the Producers Guild of America, yet Madigan was the only part of the film to be Oscar-nominated. Her two main competitors, which include BAFTA winner Wunmi Mosaku for Sinners and Golden Globe winner Teyana Taylor for One Battle After Another, have the benefit of being in best picture frontrunners with 16 and 13 nominations apiece. Those films also have top-of-the-line visibility from distributor Warner Bros. Pictures.
With the uncertain state of the supporting actress race so far, Madigan has history going both for and against her; the past six Actor Award winners for supporting actress, most recently Zoe Saldaña for Emilia Pérez and Da’Vine Joy Randolph for The Holdovers, all went on to win the Oscar. But those six actors were in films with multiple Oscar nominations, including best picture, and four of the six swept all the major precursors. Notably, the last time the Actor Awards mismatched with the Oscar supporting actress winner was in 2019, when Emily Blunt won for A Quiet Place (she wasn’t even nominated for the Oscar!)
As the sole rep of her film in a fractured category, Madigan has more odds stacked against her. One could also argue, though, that Madigan being the sole nominee of her film means all the campaigning has been able to strategically focus on getting her the win. Whether she prevails at the Oscars or not, she’s certainly had a blast on the campaign trail, enjoying the likes of Oscar winner Sally Field and Emmy winner Hannah Einbinder hosting Weapons screenings, tastemaker events, and Q&As over the past several months.
Madigan’s performance as Aunt Gladys has resonated with horror fans for skillfully playing the character’s terrifying turn from chatty neighbor to demonic hair-splitting killer, while the LGBTQ+ community has embraced her entire look and ethos. Aunt Gladys costumes could, predictably, be seen everywhere on Halloween, and she’s become an unstoppable inspiration for drag artists and performers. In a recent interview with Turner Classic Movies, Madigan even noted Bette Davis and What Ever Happened to Baby Jane? as a major inspiration for Aunt Gladys’ makeup and look.
Madigan told Rough Draft Atlanta in November, “I think in that realm – as someone who was bullied a lot as a kid – whenever you see characters like Gladys being proudly themselves and loud and open, there is something that resonates [with] the queer community and everybody, because that is what people want – the courage to be themselves.”
Madigan was in good company last night, with Sinners aiming to continue making history for horror cinema after its record-breaking 16 Oscar nominations. At the Actor Awards, Michael B. Jordan won best actor and the film’s ensemble took the top award, while Mosaku won best supporting actress at the BAFTAs. Jacob Elordi, who won best supporting actor at the Critics Choice Awards for Frankenstein, is nominated at the Oscars as well.
Not all these actors are odds-on favorites to win their respective categories, but 2025 horror performances have already broken through with Academy voters in the nomination stage. It wasn’t too long ago when millions of people watched Weapons in a crowded theater and discovered Madigan’s transformative talent for the first time, with some immediately writing her off from the Oscar race based on historical precedent. It’s only fitting that Aunt Gladys and the chameleon actor who brought her to life continue to prove us wrong.
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Taylor Tookes wants you to be your own beauty standard
This queer model wants her fans to be larger than life — even if they’re only 5’1”
There’s a certain truth when it comes to the fashion industry: it’s absolutely brutal.
It’s undeniable how much fashion drives culture; from the clothes folks wear to the influencers taking over social media, this endlessly complex business determines so much of your average person’s day-to-day life. With this being such a gargantuan industry, it’s no wonder why it’s so difficult to be a successful model — especially if you’re marginalized! While recent years have seen a welcome increase in LGBTQ+ models, models of color, and models who don’t fall into your typical beauty standards, it’s still immensely difficult for someone who’s ‘different’ to make it in fashion today.
Which is what makes Taylor Tookes so unique.
Standing at a proud 5’1”, this queer woman of color has spent the past few years dominating fashion in a way most models could only dream of. From making history as the first “short” model in New York Fashion Week to recently being named Glamour Bulgaria’s Woman of the Year, her accolades haven’t stopped rolling in since she began modeling a decade ago. But despite this, she detailed how much rejection she still faces today, with so many people (in and outside of the industry) using her identities to discredit her many years of hard work. It’s a constant negativity that can easily get someone down, but for Tookes, she just has one thing to say: “I really don’t care.”
“What really made me want to pursue [modeling] as a career was rejection, and hearing the word ‘no’ a lot,” Taylor explained. “I thought it was the dumbest thing ever!” She detailed the countless rejection letters she received early in her career, with a majority of them blaming their dismissal on the model’s height. “There’s a side of [this] industry that embraces all of my identities, but there’s also that side that’s like, ‘You shouldn’t be here. Why are you here? You’re too short. You’re too this. You’re too that!’” These questions are ones that Taylor has heard from the first few days of her career up until now, with many still questioning her role even after appearing in numerous legendary magazines. But Tookes doesn’t let this negativity get her down! She is constantly optimistic and embraces a positive outlook…one that anyone who’s been online has seen before.
Since childhood, most people who’ve consumed any aspect of American media have encountered the mantra of ‘’You’re beautiful just the way you are.” It’s an uplifting message that can be indescribably hard to follow; it’s easy to say “love yourself no matter what” when you aren’t bombarded by oppressive beauty standards or the stress of a 9-5 job. Even more, for queer people, it can be so difficult to focus on how amazing you think you are when there are so many others trying to convince you otherwise. Because of this, our communities have been at the forefront of calling out ‘toxic positivity’ and its unhealthy effects on influencers who haven’t known strife, chiding others for not being as effortlessly confident as they are.
With Taylor’s nonstop ambition and optimism, it can be easy for people to dismiss her mentality as this distinctly cheery brand of unrealistic. But anyone who actually speaks with the model understands that this confidence didn’t come easy — it’s one she’s fought to have in spite of the countless people who told her she shouldn’t.
Throughout the conversation, Taylor spoke about the many years when any one of her identities excluded her from the spaces that taller, straight models could access easily. Yet she described these moments not with sadness, but with verve. “It doesn’t really affect me in any negative way. I would say it falls under the ballpark of rejection for me, which just pushes me to keep going.” She is not someone who had this career handed to her. Taylor has proven herself as a hard-working person who faces adversity every day online, but recognizes that it all comes from people who don’t matter because they aren’t her.
“You kind of just have to remove your perception of yourself from other people’s perception of you…because really, the only perception that matters is your own. What you think of you is the only [opinion] that matters.” It’s a mantra that would sound hollow from a person who hadn’t faced hardship before, but that gains power coming from Taylor. But she knows that this hard-fought mentality isn’t easy for everyone to, which is why she fights for her communities both on and off the runway. “Representation is really important [to me]….to see someone like yourself in the industry out there like you. So you can have the mentality of, ‘Hey, if they can do it, I can do it too.’” Along with breaking barriers, recent years have seen Tookes begin advocating for fresh faces in not only fashion, but media as a whole. She and fellow model Victoria Pousada recently began The Starter’s Block, an organization dedicated to amplifying indie projects and helping independent talent like they once were to find their place in the film industry.
As the conversation came to an end, Taylor Tookes emphasized that she may be one of the first short, queer women of color to conquer fashion — but she won’t be the last. She urged anyone with her identities to join her on the covers of magazines, to be brave and try while remembering that rejection is just fuel in the fight to follow your dream. And for those who may not want to walk a runway but just want to feel beautiful in a world constantly telling them they’re not, Taylor advises them to say what she tells herself whenever she feels down.
“I just remind myself: Don’t listen to them. You’re that girl…I remind myself of who I am, why I’m here, and what my mission is. [I just need] my own validation — and no one else’s. It all depends on me.”
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Revry Co-Founder Damian Pelliccione on why we need ‘King of Drag’
The co-creator of this hit series speaks about its impact — and what fans can expect from season two!
King of Drag, the only drag king competition show on TV, activated the LGBTQ+ community with a big bang, and it’s clear why. Despite an increase in drag-centric media, this was the first series deliberately focusing on spotlighting these kinds of artists. Even a year after its premiere, fans are still raving about the show, with season one delivering a level of kingly charisma nobody could’ve expected — making it all the more exciting when it was announced that King of Drag was officially casting for season two!
As co-founder of Revry — the LGBTQ+ streaming service that hosts King of Drag — and co-creator of this hit competition show, Damian Pelliccione understands the power that media has on its audiences. It’s why they work every day to create LGBTQ+ content anyone can enjoy, and it’s why they fought to get King of Drag televised and ensure it was a space where kings could finally be celebrated. Sitting down with the Los Angeles Blade to discuss the series’ season two announcement and what it’s meant to be a part of such a trailblazing franchise, they started this interview by making one thing very clear: “We’ve always been fully invested in casting and promoting Drag Kings on our shows.”
The co-founder spoke about how representing marginalized identities has always been an integral part of Revry’s mission. “We’ve always been very inclusive in our casting to make sure that we [work with] kings just as much as we work with Queens.” It’s a sentiment that, unfortunately, most other drag-centric series don’t share. RuPaul’s Drag Race, especially, has been criticized for refusing to cast anyone who wouldn’t fall under the umbrella of ‘queen.’ And while subversive programs like The Boulet Brothers’ Dragula do allow drag kings to compete, the show typically only allows one or two each season, meaning that there’s only a short time to discuss the boundless intricacies that exist in this art form.
This means that while drag king representation exists, it’s only been a trickle amidst the wave of awareness that drag queens have received in recent years. This phenomenon never sat right with Damian and their Revry team — so they decided to do something about it.
After years of searching for sponsors to get the show made, King of Drag officially premiered in June 2025 to widespread acclaim. Fans were instantly taken by the bombastic competition; while its format is similar to many other series’, the hilarious judging panel (led by the amazing Murray Hill) and jaw-dropping challenges were endlessly zany while also perfect avenues for contestants to show their immense talent. Almost growing emotional, Pelliccione recounted the widespread support the series received after its first few episodes, saying, “[Viewers] come forward to say, ‘Thank you for creating something that is not just about fighting or cattiness.’ It’s an elimination show, but you could see the authenticity in the heart of these kings…you could see their struggles, and [what it took] to create their art.” They fondly described the love this project hasn’t stopped receiving since it first came out — but they also detailed the rampant hatred that has come along with it.
It shouldn’t be forgotten that King of Drag was produced and aired early into the current presidential term, with the early months of 2025 seeing a level of anti-trans and homophobic rhetoric filling the U.S. in a way many viewers had never seen before. Damian recalled how, in the face of this hatred, their team understood that audiences needed King of Drag now more than ever. “It’s somewhat an act of defiance having a show like King of Drag — and having a network like Revry [altogether],” they said, filled with pride. “You can’t stop progress, and we’ve already come so far as a society (at least, I hope we have), so going back does not seem realistic. And I think that we’re seeing resistance now to our sitting government, and hopefully this carries into our midterm elections!”
A resistance that was buoyed by King of Drag, with each episode introducing viewers to nonstop drag excellence and thoughtful conversations on what it means to be a queer artist today. This, combined with the wild challenges — ranging from queer quiz shows to boy band performances — turned the initial installment into a raucously prideful experience for everyone watching. For almost a year now, fans have applauded all that the show was able to accomplish, and Damian assures these viewers that there’s even more coming in season two.
“Some of the biggest things we’re really excited about in this season are [not only] a few returning challenges, but we are [also] really bringing on a whole new level of celebrity guest judges,” raved the excited co-creator. “We’re really tailoring our [judges] so that they could be a kind of mentor or advisor. [Helping] build something that the king can use for their future career!” It was this point especially that Damian emphasized as the heart of King of Drag, recognizing that while having your time in the spotlight is amazing, bills still need to be paid when the cameras are shut off. “I want kings who come off our show booked and blessed. What else can we do as a network just to help support those careers?’”
With the interview coming to an end, Damian was asked the question that thousands of drag kings are currently thinking: how can I get cast? Typically, producers answer this style of inquiry with vague advice about uniqueness and skill — but not Damian. Still wanting only the best for their contestants, they plainly stated, “My one word of advice: this is not a side hustle.”
“The purpose of being on the show is to create a career for you…We want people who are really serious about the art form and have their own specific take on what it is to be a drag king. We want your authenticity, and we want to see that this is a career path for you. We [want to know] that this is something that you’re ready to take to the next level.”
An ambitious yet thoroughly uplifting goal for the many kings currently getting their applications together. And with that advice, the creator made one thing very clear: King of Drag exists not only to spotlight drag kings, but to bring them and their art form to the forefront of queer entertainment. It’s a revolutionary undertaking that viewers can watch unfold in each scene, and if a drag king feels ready to join in and become a part of this mission, Damian invites them to gather up their best drag and apply for season two today.
King of Drag season 1 is streaming on Revry
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‘Pee-wee as Himself’ and ‘Lurker’ directors on how queer audiences have reacted to their Spirit Award-winning films
“It’s been revelatory for young people,” Matt Wolf said of telling Paul Reubens’ coming out story
This year’s Film Independent Spirit Awards winners told wide-ranging stories of everything from Paul Reubens’ posthumous coming out in Pee-wee as Himself to a fictional homoerotic relationship that forms between an artist and his biggest fan in Lurker.
With such a diverse group of winners, these filmmakers reflected on how queer people and young audiences have responded to their work.
“I’ve talked to people whose kids have seen the film, and young kids don’t understand what the closet is,” Pee-wee as Himself director Matt Wolf told The Blade backstage. “As a younger, gay filmmaker, I felt like I could help him do that on his own terms. It was a big deal for Paul. It’s interesting to hear from people’s kids who don’t understand the struggle.”
Wolf continued: “It’s been revelatory for young people in that sense, but also I’m hearing from people that their kids are now watching Pee-wee’s Playhouse, and that they love it. And you never know, does this thing look old? Does it feel outdated? [His films are] so otherworldly, and I don’t think young people register it as being from any time.”
Lurker director Alex Russell (who previously wrote on Beef and The Bear) nabbed awards for best first screenplay and best first feature, and Théodore Pellerin and Archie Madekwe were nominated for their performances. Russell’s win is a testament to Film Independent’s legacy of embracing new generations of filmmakers and storytellers.
While accepting the award for best first screenplay, Russell recognized the creatives who took a chance on him, saying: “I want to thank everyone who was willing to look stupid and put even just a sliver of themselves on the line to legitimize all these new filmmakers here tonight, who, without you, would still be aspiring to make their first movie.”
Backstage, The Blade asked the breakthrough filmmaker about how queer people have responded to the film’s thorny take on male relationships.
“I don’t know if the queer community has reacted to me personally. There’s an interesting discussion in what Matthew and Olivier’s relationship is all about … and where they stand on the spectrum,” Russell said. “I want people to think about that, I want people to think about the ambiguity of that. That being said, if the queer community wants to talk to me about it, I’m here!”
Pee-wee as Himself is available to stream on HBO Max, while Lurker is on MUBI.
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Liveplay series ‘Gladlands’ finds hope in the unlikeliest of places
The cast of ‘Dimension 20’s’ latest season discusses bringing chaos and community to their many loyal fans.
Sometimes, it takes everything falling apart for us to remember that community is what holds us together.
It’s a lesson that many people have learned in recent months. Amidst the ongoing attacks against LGBTQ+ and immigrant populations, folks across the country have come to realize just how important community is to each of our daily lives.
Now more than ever, marginalized communities need to remember that oppressors have always used grief to further disenfranchise the people they’re attacking. And that, as laughable as it seems at times, the best response to others’ hatred is to love one another; to foster strength and joy amongst our own groups to ensure we have the fortitude necessary in the ongoing fight against bigotry. Many projects have tried to remind folks of this message…and one just so happens to be a tabletop roleplaying game (TTRPG) set in a post-apocalyptic — and so, so queer — wasteland.
Gladlands is the latest season of Dimension 20, a renowned TTRPG liveplay series that sees groups of LA-based performers tackle some chaotic new narrative every season. The show’s newest installment takes place in a barren wasteland, with all cities and symbols of civilization reduced to rubble after a multi-year ecological crisis (which just so happens to resemble the one we’re currently fighting right now). The cast, which features a majority LGBTQ+ group of LA-based comedians, plays a team of folks trying to help as many people in this hellscape as possible, reminding every survivor they come across that it’s easiest to get through the hard times when we’re in them together.
The cast of Gladlands sat down with the LA Blade to discuss this poignant message and how it feels to deliver it when folks need it most. They speak about their roles in the series, their personal lives as local artists in Los Angeles, and how it’s fun pieces of media like this that can get folks through the toughest times. They raved about this complex project and what they hope it will bring to everyone who watches, with each player emphasizing Gladlands’ core message: you are not alone.
As strange as it may seem to people not in the community, it’s not uncommon for role-playing games like Gladlands to touch on issues real people struggle with every day. “It really is transformative,” said Oscar Montoya, who plays the fierce Drag Queen librarian ‘Poppy Persona’ on the season. “There’s a little bit of your soul that goes into every character that you play…and there’s so much self-realization that comes when you play TTRPG that you [may not] even recognize!” It’s a sentiment that fellow player Kimia Behpoornia, who plays the skateboarding cockroach-human hybrid ‘Tess Tube5,’ echoed, stating, “[These games] help people feel so validated.”
The cast reiterated how it’s these sessions of fantasy that often allow people to grow in very real ways. That’s why they believed it was the perfect platform to spread the message of love threaded throughout Gladlands, a season that sees their group of apocalyptic advocates — members of the legendary ‘Carer-Van’ — drive across an endless desert in search of anyone who needs help. An eclectic group of humans and mutants, each episode sees them work hard to see the good in their fellow person and flex their many skills to assist those in need.
“It’s really nice that this season is here [during a time] when it really resonates,” Kimia went on. “But it’s kind of the simplest idea [ever] to want to help your community!” Vic Michaelis, whose plague mask-wearing character ‘Hugi’ is the apocalypse’s only mortician, stressed that the show’s message is one that everyone needs to remember right now. “We’re living during a time [when] community is very important…but there’s no way [when we were filming] that we would’ve known the season would come out at a time like this. But [we are] watching people dig down right now and go, ‘We are taking care of our community.’” They reminded everyone watching that this kind of communal care is not only inspiring, but also threatening, saying, “That strikes fear amongst people in power. There is success in coming together to protect your community, [which I think] reflects the themes of Gladlands.”
“Trying to stay glad is, in itself, a form of resistance,” Agreed Jacob Wysocki, who portrays the warm and cuddly caretaker KoKoMo. He detailed how, through their characters, each player hoped to offer viewers models of the many behaviors that allow real communities to flourish. On that in particular, he gave credit to the season’s dungeon master, Brennan Lee Mulligan, saying, “He built this world because he looked at the [real] world we’re in and [asked], ‘Does it take a fully post-apocalyptic world to get to a space where community [comes] first?’”
“Baby — we live in the post-apocalyptic times right now!” Said Montoya, whose time as a Los Angeles activist has given him special insight into how this city’s communities have been struggling. “[But] I think the important thing to realize is that we create our own Gladlands…the message of community coming together to combat adversity is so paramount, especially right now. To have a collection of people you can lean on and say, ‘We don’t like this. We don’t stand for this. Let’s create something together.”
Each cast member agreed that, while a lovely sentiment, the messages broadcast through their show are easier said than done. But they each emphasized that you don’t need to be part of a roving band of super-powered caretakers to do good — and that no matter what, this kind of work should never be done in solitude. “[Remember] you’re not in it alone,” emphasized Montoya, as the interviews came to an end. “You are a part of a community that can enact change. And know: they’re trying to take that away from us. They’re trying to make us feel smaller and less than. [But] you have to recognize that we have the power…especially when it feels so overwhelming. Because it is then that you have people who have your back, who will continue to have your back [no matter what].”
An uplifting message of community, wrapped up in a chaotic season of jaw-dropping dice rolls and truly wild character arcs. Gladlands showcases that, sometimes, the most important lessons come in the most surprising packages. And, with each of these performers at the helm, it highlights the core message of this series as a whole: you’re never alone in the fight for community. And true freedom starts with being there for your neighbors, making sure that you all have what you need for whatever may come next.
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Tello Films: Celebrating 19 years of lesbian storytelling
Tello Films proves that, after 19 years, independent lesbian filmmaking is as necessary as ever.
In an era where LGBTQ representation in movies has hit a three-year low, Tello Films proves that, after 19 years, independent lesbian filmmaking is as necessary as ever. According to Sarah Kate Ellis, the CEO and President of GLAAD, “Nearly ⅓ of non-LGBTQ Americans say that LGBTQ inclusive films have changed their perception of our community… It is imperative that networks and streamers do not back down.”
Meanwhile, the lesbian streaming service Tello Films celebrated its 19th birthday on February 6th. Says founder Christin Baker, “When I started it 19 years ago, I thought at some point maybe we wouldn’t be necessary, […] I really do feel like representation saves lives…it’s still important for us to be around.” Often referred to as the “Lesbian Netflix”, the Nashville-based production company has a primary focus on lesbian and sapphic stories for the past 19 years and thankfully, is just getting started.
Tello Films was far ahead of its time. For those of you who didn’t live through or don’t remember, 2007 was a different time. Apple debuted the first iPhone, Barack Obama declared his run for the presidency, and the phrase “that’s so gay!” was prevalent as ever (at least at my high school). “We didn’t have marriage equality at that time. Civil unions were kind of starting here and there -the crazy thing (is that) ‘Don’t Ask Don’t Tell’ was still in effect.” Baker recalls, “There were still so many rights we didn’t have in 2007 when we started it, and we are still fighting for it.”
Tello Films’ beginnings were just the start of the lesbian legacy. Said Christin, “I never thought Tello would or could ever be my full-time job.” With the URL TelloFilms.com registered on February 6, 2007, the platform was an internet-based streaming company with all its movies formatted small to appease a 2007-era browser. While Netflix was only just beginning to offer streaming services, launching any streaming service in 2007 was bold; to launch a streaming service entirely devoted to lesbian and sapphic stories was revolutionary. “I want to make lesbian stories.. I want to see things that represent me.”
In the past 19 years, Baker shares her career-defining moment came from the recently deceased Nancylee Myatt, showrunner for South of Nowhere. “We made a short-form series called Cowgirl Up. I felt like I put my big girl pants on. Nancylee was a huge mentor, and I was like, ‘Oh, I can do this. I can do this, and I can figure it out.’”
Tello went on to receive their first primetime Emmy nomination with Mindy Sterling of Austin Powers fame for Outstanding Actress in a Short Form Comedy or Drama Series. “We got two daytime Emmy nominations for two actresses, Liz Vassey and Carolyn Radere […], then in 2018 we made our first lesbian Christmas movie,, Season of Love and that really kind of started us down the path, and I think we’re probably most well known for, which is our lesbian holiday rom-coms.”

We now live in the era of Chappell Roan, Doechii, Heated Rivalry, and so many more queer artists and pieces of media in the mainstream’s consciousness. The last several years in pop culture have proven that queer art and artists matter, not just as a salve to a society that still struggles to accept us, but to the mass audiences who continue to resonate with it.
Queer media is being devoured by folks outside of the LGBTQ community. “I think it (Heated Rivalry) shocked so many people (because) it was powerful and compelling […] I wasn’t that surprised because I remember Brokeback Mountain being very much in that same vein; it was just cowboys instead of hockey players.” Authenticity and overcoming adversity are not just tenets of good storytelling; they are also ever-present themes within the lives of any queer you know.
As Christin sees it, the success of Heated Rivalry isn’t just rooted in its unabashed sexual themes, it has a very universal “lesbian” approach to its storytelling “There’s a ton of longing, and missing, and having a crush and not knowing if it’s reciprocated, […] there’s a lot that you tap into just on a human level that Heated Rivalry really touched on.”
Themes that are at the forefront of the sapphic stories Tello has mastered telling. “We still don’t have enough LGBTQ holiday Christmas movies out there each year. Some people wouldn’t look at a Hallmark movie or Christmas rom-com as substantive, but I really do feel like representation saves lives.”
For so many in the LGBTQ community, representation isn’t theoretical- it’s personal. I know for myself, in the throes of a messy divorce, one of the only things that brought me comfort was the sapphic films on Tello. It was so difficult to find lighthearted queer stories. I recall searching through every streaming service as they were slowly but surely eliminating the LGBTQ sections from their apps, as well as those queer characters and shows. But not Tello; I was able to find comfort and ease through a tough time in my personal life. “It’s such comfort, especially if you’ve gone through something that’s tough and your regular daily life is stressful, you need an escape to something that you know is not going to cause more anxiety.”
Having accessible ways to both tell and consume sapphic stories is tantamount to this moment in time. Independent filmmaking has the power to make sure authentic stories are heard. Being an independent voice as well as being able to support smaller budget stories that definitely wouldn’t get picked up, or even recognized or seen in mainstream, Christin and Tello Films are uplifting not just lesbian and sapphic stories, but lesbian and sapphic artists as well.

As for the future of lesbian filmmaking, it’s no secret that Hollywood is drowning, leaving a void for people like Christin and Tello Films to fill. Said Baker in light of the shrinkage in Hollywood and what that means for Tello Films, “We will get even more creative and tell even more stories, because we can’t be stopped.”
Encouraged by her fiancée, Stacey Lee Powell, Christin wants the world to know that Tello Films isn’t just a business, it’s personal. “I see Tello as an extension of me.” Says Baker, “In doing that, I hope that people see that Tello isn’t some corporate entity, I hope they see that it is someone who cares deeply. I’ve been doing this for 19 years, and every day I wake up trying to figure out how to tell our stories and how to serve our community.” Nineteen years later, Tello Films remains what it has always been: not a nameless, faceless corporation, but an extension of a storyteller’s dream to build a safe space for her community.
Check out TelloFilms.com
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From ‘So Random’ to sexy theater: LA’s very own Mathew Scott Montgomery
This former Disney star breaks down their new play, ‘Foursome,’ and the security of performance.
Even in a Los Angeles filled with experimental theater, few projects have been as brazenly sexual as the IAMA and Celebration’s Foursome. Following a quartet of queer friends as they embark on a weekend getaway, this play watches as they uncover the secrets (and attractions) that have always lurked in the shadows of their longtime friendships. Filled with niche community references, heartfelt vulnerability, and some of the spiciest live sex scenes audiences will ever see, Foursome is proving itself as an innovative look into queer sexuality — and none of it would have been possible without The Disney Channel.
Matthew Scott Montgomery began his career on Disney with one goal: pull focus. He quickly found out that he was a tad too good at this; in his conversation with the LA Blade, he detailed the many times his early onscreen performances were cut down because he was considered ‘too distracting.’ From starring as an extra in Zendaya’s Shake It Up to leading the SNL-style So Random!, his childhood career saw Montgomery flexing the bombastic personality he still carries today. And while the goal of this interview was to speak with the performer about Foursome and his time with Disney, the first few minutes were spent discussing an equally important portion of the man’s life: the Hilary Duff concert he’d seen at The Wiltern the night before.
“[I’d] spent all day in rehearsals with three of the best queer actors in the world, and [then I left] to go to a Hilary Duff concert in LA with my boyfriend, as a gift from [Demi Lovato],” raved Matthew. “I burst into tears because it hit me: none of this would’ve happened if I hadn’t come out…I wish I could go back to ten-year-old me back in North Carolina and [tell him], ‘One day, you’re going to leave your gay play rehearsal, [meet up] with your boyfriend, and go to a Hilary Duff concert. And everything is going to be okay.”
Matthew remembered this little kid from a conservative hometown who dreamt of nothing more than boyfriends and Lizzie Maguire in concert. He explained that his area of North Carolina didn’t allow for any level of dramatics from young boys — something that definitely didn’t mesh with this gay child who felt safest when he was onstage.
“When I was a kid, I used to record episodes of Will and Grace [on the VCR], write down the dialogue, then go into my room and run the scenes [when everyone was asleep]…I’ve always identified as an artist, and I was desperate to perform,” said Matthew, reminiscing on his early days as an artist. “I think the safest place in the world is on stage or in front of a camera, because you know exactly what you’re going to say. You know what your lines are, which mark you’re gonna hit…everyone is watching you, and you’re being perceived, and it feels so safe. I get nervous off camera, because then you don’t have a map of what’s happening.”
Performance has always served as both a passion and a safety for the actor, with Montgomery laughing at the many years he spent acting out his favorite shows in the sanctity of his childhood bedroom. Luckily, he eventually took these skills to a giant stage most kids could only dream of: The Disney Channel.
After years of hearing the terrible experiences of so many child actors, it’s heartening to learn how validating Montgomery’s early time on TV was. He told stories of Disney gigs and fun hangouts with queer stars like Haley Kiyoko and Demi Lovato, people who he still considers close friends today. “We would talk about our queerness and how to navigate it,” he said, showing love to the tight-knit network that these closeted children created for one another. It was because of their support that he had the courage to come out in his early 20s, with this new self-acceptance allowing Matthew to take on openly queer projects and even begin writing his own — cue Foursome, his latest creation and certainly the sexiest one yet.
Foursome sees the actor as Noah, a young man whose weekend at a cabin with three friends turns into a night of revelry as loosened inhibitions lead to shocking confessions. On why he created a project centered on modern sexuality, he explained, “I think there’s a really beautiful thing about the queer community where we can love each other through different evolutions of our friendships…this play is really about celebrating that freeness, and having a very frank discussion about what it means to be a queer person in a relationship in the modern day.”
The project douses this exploration into contemporary sexuality with so much pop symbolism that it’ll be relatable for any LGBTQ+ person watching. From the pop songs our main cast sing to the community-based slang they throw at one another, the writer wanted to instantly clue queer watchers into the fact that this was made for them by one of their own. And it’s that, he stressed, that is the goal of not only Foursome, but his entire career: making other people feel seen.
“What’s most important to me is queer joy,” Matthew stated, as the conversation came to an end. “Showing queer people having a good time…I think that can be a radical thing, especially with the way the world is right now. We’re going to be gay, and we’re going to be fun, and [our goal] is to have you join us in that fun.” He promises that Foursome will be a summation of his decades-long career of making people laugh, combining his uniquely gut-busting brand of humor with an earnest discussion around how our communities form relationships outside of heteronormative ideals. He invites everyone to come see Foursome and, in its nonstop joy, hopes that by creating this kind of inclusive art piece for viewers, he’ll be imparting onto them some of the security he’s always felt onstage.
And when asked if he had any final enticements for potential watchers, Montgomery adorned the smile that he’s worn since his Disney days and stated, “Well, we do say that the title, Foursome, is a promise — and we absolutely deliver.”
Foursome will have its world premiere with IAMA Theatre Company, produced in association with Celebration Theatre. Performances are at the Atwater Village Theatre, 3269 Casitas Avenue, Los Angeles, and plays now through March 23. Tickets ($30-$45) are available at iamatheatre.com
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Angel McCoughtry, “Renaissance Woman”
Angel McCoughtry is a professional athlete. A two-time gold medalist, 5-time WNBA all-star, philanthropist, and now filmmaker.
“Renaissance Woman” is a term fit for a queen. Heavy is the head that wears the crown, but we’re in luck because Angel McCoughtry is a professional athlete. A two-time gold medalist, 5-time WNBA all-star, philanthropist, and now filmmaker, Angel has built career(s) defined by reinvention and an insistence on excellence at every turn.
Her move to take charge behind the camera comes at a time that feels anything but divine. In a time where stories like Heated Rivalry bring the heat (pun intended) one moment, while nearly half of all queer characters and stories are vanishing from TV the next, McCoughtry’s leadership behind the camera signals something hopeful: A refusal to let anyone or any story get left behind.
A WNBA legend, McCoughtry played ten years without pause, splitting her time between the W and overseas leagues. In college, she led the Big East Conference in scoring, rebounds, and steals, obliterating records, even the ones she herself set. The number one draft pick and Rookie of the year in ‘09, McCoughtry quickly became one of the best players the W has ever seen. Though she never officially retired, Angel hasn’t played in the W since 2022, when she was sidelined for an injury that she has since healed. (Ya hear that WNBA? Our girl is ready to come back!)
Being forced to step away from the game brought about a reckoning that is all too familiar to elite athletes everywhere: “Who are you when your body won’t let you perform?” Through detangling this identity crisis, McCoughtry found a new appreciation for storytelling, the stories we tell ourselves as well as the stories we tell the world. Angel’s innovative storytelling and directing style are inspired by basketball, as she likens herself to the Dawn Staley of film, adding, “When you allow your players to be free, they can play at their highest level, and that’s what I allow my actors to do.”
Inspired by her grandmother’s stories of playing ball in a time when women were not allowed to cross half court and had to wear skirts, Angel wants to empower resilient perspectives. “I can’t keep their stories hidden,” She says, “The women who paved the way.” Laser focused on bringing scripted sports films to the mainstream, McCoughtry says, “I’m looking for stories that resonate with the people, and I want to be the one to bridge the gap and bring women’s sports scripted content to the forefront.”
Through McCoughtry Entertainment, Angel wants to bring women’s sports to the forefront as well as genre-driven films, particularly sports-thrillers led by women. Her short film Bygones is now available to stream on Prime Video, with more projects in the barrel. Her feature-length directorial debut, Bolted, is on deck as her next project. I personally would love to see the gay women’s version of Heated Rivalry in McCoughtry’s hands, who says, “There’s a realness to it,” about the show, “That happens often, and it’s not talked about [..] that’s all over women’s sports.”
“I am obsessed with stories about overcoming adversity,” says McCoughtry, an apt throughline in Angel’s work that reflects the spirit of creativity and athleticism.
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